Earlier this year I
got the great opportunity to interview Prof. Rohan Gunaratna, head of the
prestigious Singapore-based International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research. I conducted the interview to get a deeper understanding of
terrorism, Non-State Armed Groups (NSAG) and illicit arms trade in the
Philippines that will help me in writing my master thesis, but Prof. Gunaratna
agreed that I publish the interview on International Security Issues as well.
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ISI: Prof. Gunaratna,
in your article Understanding the Radical Mindset from September 2012 you quote Umar Patek from Jamaah al Islamiyya
(JI). He said that his motivation to take part in armed violence and terrorism
is Muslim self-defense. In the context of Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW)
that raises the question if it is the availability of SALW that causes armed
conflict or if it is that terrorist groups and Non-State Armed Groups (NSAG)
want to use armed violence and, therefore, have the demand for SALW. Or is it
an entirely different reason?
Prof. Gunaratna:
Firstly, terrorist groups are always looking for weapons because terrorist
groups know that without weapons they cannot mount attacks. So a terrorist
group will have the intention to do attacks but no operational capability.
Operational capability comes with training and with weapons. So one part of the
strategy to fight political violence or illegal violence, terrorist violence is
to counter the intentions, to create more pathways for peace. But we also have
to deny access to weaponry and access to training. We have to regulate both
availability to weapons or easy access to weapons, access by unauthorized
persons, plus we must control those who provide training without a government
organization or approval. These persons should be persecuted and put in prison,
because those who have the specialist knowledge to provide training should be
held liable and held accountable. Those who provide training plus those who
sell weapons illegally should be sent to prison, like for a hundred years where
they will not come out of prison. You have to have very harsh laws. You have to
confiscate their property and you have to also ensure that they do not come out
of prison because these weapons kill a lot of people.
ISI: Right now there
are many “future terrorists” and irregular soldiers travelling to Syria to get
their battlefield experience there. This is probably also a big threat.
Prof. Gunaratna:
Correct. Syria is the new Afghanistan. With regard to Afghanistan, it produced
the last generation of terrorists and Syria is now producing the next
generation of terrorists.
ISI: How do NSAGs and
terrorist groups in the Philippines and in Southeast Asia acquire arms and
where do those arms come from?
Prof. Gunaratna: In
the Philippines there are three principal sources of weapons. One is, the New
People’s Army (NPA) acquires weapons from official foreign sources. We also saw
that even JI tried to buy weapons with MILF (Moro Islamic Liberation Front).
MILF and JI together had a plot to buy weapons from official foreign sources as
well. This is the first source of weapons. Certain governments are acting
illegally, selling weapons to various NSAGs. A second source of weapons is
private arms dealers, people in Hong Kong, people in China, people in
Australia. The third source of weapons is what these groups get from the
military and the police. They buy weapons from state sources that are corrupt.
ISI: In the western
perception, terrorist attacks are often conducted using explosives like IEDs
(improvised explosive device). Has the availability of SALW in the region an
impact on terrorism?
Prof. Gunaratna: In
the Philippines, the Abu Sayyaf were experts in kidnapping but not in bomb
attacks. They developed the capability to do bomb attacks because of the Abu
Sayyaf integration with Jamaah al Islamiyya. JI is now working with Abu Sayyaf.
Before, JI’s sponsor was MILF because MILF had a major training camp in a place
next to a camp (Abu Bakar) called Hudaibiya and after Hudaibiya they moved the
location to Jabbar Kubar 1 and Jabbar Kubar 2. But now MILF, under the new
leadership, Hadji Murad is not providing assistance to JI but Abu Sayyaf is
providing that link and what we are keen to see disrupted is that relationship,
because it is the JI relationship that gives Abu Sayyaf the capability to do
the bombings. As you know 80 to 90 percent of terrorist attacks use guns or
bombs. This is not different in the Philippines. Certainly, the bombing
capability of Abu Sayyaf, of the Rajah Sulaiman Revolutionary Movement that had
that capability and the MILF special operations group created a lot of chaos.
We must specifically control the flow of explosives. This is a major concern
because a lot of people die because of explosives. Firearms are dangerous, but
explosives are even more dangerous.
ISI: Prof. Gunaratna,
thank you very much for the interview.
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